"Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need." (Acts 2:45 - 46)
"Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common." (Acts 4:32)
"Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles' feet' and they distributed to each as anyone had need." (Acts 4:34 - 35).
The conservatives of this project might be able to succeed in purging the Bible of all the apparently liberal, emasculating tendencies, but they must never succeed at denying Christianity's instructions that property is not any type of God-given right, in fact it is not even yours to keep. Rather, according to the Bible, property is to be gotten rid of, sold, and distributed among your neighbors. Maybe we should think more about that when we hear people being denounced as "socialists" ...
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The bible isn't communist. I agree it is anti-capitalist, in a very obscure, non-marxist kind of way, but calling it communist is a bit discrepant wouldn't you say?
ReplyDeleteDepends how you define communist. Obviously, Marxist "Communism" (capital C) has many aspects that are not espoused by Christianity (like, say, atheism). However, communism with a lower-case c is quite a broad term, and the abolishment of private property in favor of communal ownership is a good indicator of this system.
ReplyDeleteLaura> Where have you read that Marxism is atheist? Aside from Marx's personal beliefs, in my understanding of his model of Communism, "religion is a private matter only in relation to the state". Not a defensive stance, just trying to broaden my understanding.
ReplyDeleteMy girlfriend and I have this conversation at least once a month. There are a number of passages in the Bible that seem to lean towards what we would call socialism, and at times out-and-out communism.
Matthew 21:12-13, Mark 11:15-16 (Jesus drives out the capitalists from his temple)
Matthew 20:1-16 (A rich landowner pays laborers who work 1 hour the same amount as those who worked 8)
And of course the Sermon on The Mount...
Another good read.
Hello, this is Remy, your old UCU friend:)I really like reading your posts guys, as you always pose interesting questions and often reach insightful conclusions, but this time I can't agree with you wholeheartedly.
ReplyDelete1. I'm Catholic, so whatever I say here is the interpretation of my religious group, or at least my understanding of it (I'm a humble consultant and not a theologian!) I don't know the Protestant or Orthodox views on the issues presented well enough to make comments. But I share my views and appreciate all comments.
2. Firstly, a point of order: Bible is not anti-capitalist,as David said. That's a rather ahistorical argument - modern capitalism did not exist in the times of Jesus and Apostles.
3. Bible and Christianity, at least in its Catholic form, is neither rightwing, nor leftwing, not even centrist. We, Catholics, share a couple of fundamental principles on how society should look: preservation of human rights, space for discussion based on rationality and preference for the poor (something akin to Rawlsian justice principle) plus possibly couple of other principles of smaller importance that I don't remember here.
4. If society leads to the fullfilment of the values presented above, it is good, whatever its name. If it doesn't, it's bad. As to precise means for the realization of those values, we don't care. Or at least, we do not see theology to be sufficiently equipped to answer such questions. It's more the job of sociologists, economists, politicians (both Catholic and non-Catholic) to find solutions. It's where debates should take place, based more on logical arguments and evidence rather than cookie-cutter ideological solutions.
5. As a result, some of us tend to support Republicans and VVD, others are followers of Christian Democratic parties. Yet, we also have people among us whom we can term as socialdemocrats.
6. Catholic leaders sometimes go further than defining general principles and propose solutions (vide Popes John XXIII and Benedict XVI). But solutions to social problems are more recommendations than infallible judgment.
7. On the whole, Catholic social though is, essentially, non-ideological. One can see parallels or some kind of dialogue with Karl Popper here.
8. But let's get to the passages mentioned here from the Acts. Yeap, it looks like communism and the ideal is very much present today in Catholic and Orthodox orders (especially mendicant orders), as well as in some of the newly-founded communities of my Church (e.g., Opus Dei). Still, in the Bible you can pretty much find instances that could well serve to support other points of view on socioeconomic problems, e.g., Jesus' parable on talents or Jesus' meetings with the rich & wealthy of Israel, e.g., Joseph of Arimateia. As to the Sermon on the Mount, long discussions have led us to believe that "the poor" relates to spiritual poverty, i.e., intellectual humbleness, attitude of knowing that whatever you know about God's ways is at best imperfect and may be put on its head one day...
8. To recap, although we tend to believe that helping the poor and providing for some kind of safety network is rather essential, at least a large part of us, Catholics, also see that society cannot always function effectively as a commune. Property and interest are what motivates people to act and innovate. For all the shortcomings of capitalism, one may not forget that it has led to standards of living, unobtainable to other socioeconomic systems.
- Remy